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Mayoral Meeting 30th November 2010
These are the minutes following our meeting with The Hills Shire Council Mayor Mike Thomas.
The meeting on the 30th November began at 5:35 Pm In The Hills Shire Council Mayor's room.
Present: Mike Thomas (Mayer) Justin Taunton (Deputy Mayor) Robyn Preston (Councillor) Greg Burnett (Councillor) Michael Edger joined the meeting at 6:00pm
Dave Parson (President) Patrick Do Rozario (Treasurer) Lebba Khater (Member) Connie Fimmano (Secretary)
Robyn Preston conducted the formal introductions.
Mayor Thomas began by asking what was our proposal to be addressed. Patrick distributed our written concerns and proceeded by highlighting the proposed zoning of our land under the new LEP that being RU4 which in term is the same as the present zoning know as Rural 1C. He expressed his disappointment that nothing has changed in terms of zoning over the last 30 years. Under the proposed new LEP there is another zoning whereby it determines Large Lot residential that may be more appropriate to our zoning since our properties are not conducive to agriculture.
The Mayer interrupted by asking the direct question as to what we are proposing and want to achieve. Connie expressed that our aim is to achieve some sort of subdivision. That fallowed by what size allotments we proposed. Connie continued by saying that would depend on the terrain. What we propose is not different to what is already in places like Fingal Ave, Grange Road and Carinda Drive where there is a mixture of a quarter acre lots and on the opposing side one acre lots to accommodate the natural terrain.
Dave elaborated on this proposal by pointing out the existing laws imposed by Council whereby a large amount of the one acre can by restricted in terms o building and therefore protect the natural fauna and flora as well as the natural water coursed that may run on these areas. He also expressed the benefits to council in relation to maintenance of these areas as this would be the responsibility of the owners. Dave’s example was that of Toongabbie Creek and how the riparian area is covered in privet that falling under Council due restrictions.
During the course of the conversation the Mayor asked us what area we are proposing for rezoning. Connie showed him on his laptop the area in question. The Mayor seems sympathetic to our proposal but is not in the position to give any advice as this is better addressed by Michael Edgar in his planning capacity.
Michael Edger joined the meeting at approximately 6:00pm Robyn Preston briefed him on the conversation that had taken place in his absence. Patrick expressed his concerns with the proposed zoning. To this Michael went on to say that the difference between RU4 and RU5 is not going to bring about any benefits to what we are proposing as the process of rezoning rests entirely with the need to provide the necessary services such as Power. Water and Sewer in the fist instance, followed by the Flora, Fauna and fire studies. He went on to say that the LEP will be exhibited in February and our best option at this stage is to prepare a submission in respect to the LEP addressing our proposal to accommodate the changes we feel are relevant to the zoning of our land. He continued to say that we may benefit from the South Dural Submission for subdivision if it is approved since there may be a need for the Sewer to connect to our side of the road. He suggested that we be patient. In preparing the submission it may be to our advantage to contact the South Dural Planner( Mr. Brown)who has already gone down the track and knows what is required in putting the submission in the proper context.
RU4 Small Holdings zone and the Residential R5 Large Lot Residential zone
Under the present draft Hills LEP 2010, our lands [presently zoned Rural 1(c)] will be zoned Rural RU4 Small Holdings zone. We thought that the Residential R5 Large Lot Residential zone (as provided for in the DOP Standard LEP 2010 Template) would be much more appropriate for our lands as the primary purposes is residential uses (rather than primary production uses/purposes under Rural RU4 Small Holdings zone).
Despite DOP LEP Guidelines (PN 07-001) which specifically addresses the difference between Rural RU4 Small Holdings zone and Residential R5 Large Lot Residential zone, the draft Hills LEP 2010 does not even provide for R5 Large Lot Residential zone in any of the Rural zones in the Hills Shire. R5 Large Lot Residential is not provided for at all in the draft Hills LEP 2010.
We think that it is absurd that all rural lands will be zoned as primary production uses/purposes. Michael Edgar said that, for the draft Hills LEP 2010 and the issue of subdivision of our rural lands, it did not matter what we called the zoning. He felt that we should be looking and applying our efforts and resources to the next LEP (LEP 2015). We needed to convince the State Gvt/DOP through the Metro Development Program as well as address the environmental issues - bushfire, flora, fauna and other studies under both State and Commonwealth legislation. The State and Commonwealth assessed things independently and did not really care about how the other addressed the issues under the legislation.
On-site septic treatment units and the sewerage adaquacy issue
Michael Edgar was very adamant that on-site septic treatment units (eg bio-cycle or enviro-cycle) would not be acceptable on any rural lands to support subdivision in terms of the sewerage adaquacy issue. We agreed that the amount of land needed to be set aside depended on many things such as slope, soil type and quality and had to be determined on a case-by-case matter. He did mention that 1,200 sq m was needed to be set aside for the treated water to seep into/collect. I did mention that 1 acre of land comprised of over 4,000 sq m so that should be more than enough land to allow for required seepage/collection, setback and buffers. He was not convined of this.
South Dural Subdivision
Michael again mentioned that our best chance was to wait for the South Dural subdivision as that would act like an impetus to drive development for our area but we still needed to do the submissions and the required studies to address the environmental issues. Also, as developers now have to fund alot of the infrastructure as part of developemnt costs (eg parks, storm-water etc), this made the cost of development very expensive and, if the resulting lots be be sold are over-priced, this added very real financial disincentives for developers.
Dual occupancy and secondary dwellings
Michael Edgar said that the DOP did not want secondary dwellings on rural lands and that he and the Mayor made representation to support secondary dwellings for rural lands. He expects that a letter will be coming shortly from the DOP accepting secondary dwellings on rural lands. As far as dual occupancy, this will remain for all zonings (as is the present case in the current Hills LEP). He said that we will have something extra (secondary dwellings allowing for detached homes) than we have un der the present Hills LEP.
MOU "Memo of Understanding" between the Hills Shire Council and Hornsby Council
The Deputy Mayor referred to a MOU "Memo of Understanding" between the Hills Shire Council and Hornsby Council which suggests the possibility of Hills Council planning dept. resources to be used for assisting Hornsby Council and the South Dural Association subdivision effforts, but obviously only after the draft Hills Shire LEP 2010 had been finalised.
The Mayor excused himself by saying he had another meeting. The meeting concluded at 6:50 pm
Result of Meeting with the Mayor
Patrick Do Rozario and Connie Fimmano were welcomed at the appointed meeting.
The Mayor invited Patrick to discuss the issues of concern to the 2156 Landowners Association.
Patrick began by putting forward the Hills Shire Council’s proposal to support the South Dural Group with the process involved in the Rezoning of their land. He said that we would like to have the information as to what capacity the Hills Council gives support to the Hornsby residents. Given that the Council meeting was behind closed doors and we cannot be given direct access to this information. We would appreciate any information that can be given to us in this matter since we are proposing for the rezoning of our land and are contributing by our rates and levies to the Hills Shire Council.
The Mayor responded that the councils support is given in order to have the necessary infrastructure put in place whereby depending on whether the services such as water and sewer would be directed down Glenhaven Road these would benefit our cause for any future subdivision proposal. He also said that the request was made to have a Memo of Undertaking agreement whereby the any future planning could be linked.
This Memo has been signed by both Councils. Michael Edger concurred with the Mayor.
At the same time Michael Edger went to say that the North Kellyville subdivision was part of the Rezoning Processes that had been Proposed since the 1976 LEP. Given that the South Dural Association has presented all the necessary studies required under the Planning process at their expense they are ahead of us for any consideration that could be given for future subdivision. Because they do not want to give us any representation that may give us false hopes of any change occurring in the foreseeable future, he said that any change could be 10 to 20 years away even if we prepared all the necessary studies, because it usually takes that amount of time from the time it is proposed to the time that change takes place as in the Rouse Hill Kellyville scenario.
Michael Edger took the Briefing Paper prepared by Patrick and promised to read through it and give a call to Patrick with any answers he may have relevant to our concerns .
Mayoral meeting
We have been granted a Meeting with the Mayor and Council Planning Head, Michael Edgar which has been arranged through Clr Robyn Preston (also attending).
We have prepared a Briefing Note to discuss several topics including the recent Hills Council resolution to assist the South Dural rezoning in respect of their Hornsby Shire land and through Hornsby Council. We would like to have at least the same assistance with our rural lands rezoning issue, given that we are Hills Shire residents and ratepayers.
Bring up the issue of:
1. why it is expected by the DOP that to get to first base on rezoning (with no guarantees), we have to fund costly detailed studies and submissions ourselves. The residents of the lands inlcuded in the Metro Strategy 2005 / North-west Growth Centre / Metro Development Program did not have to do so, as well as other land releases in the Hills Area (eg Balmoral Road).
If land is to be rezoned to meet future population then the Local Council & State Gvts ought to undertake these studies and submissions or, at least, give the residents considerable assistance, guidance and perhaps some measure of guarantees in view of the sizeable funds that are required to lodge development applications.
2. Sydney Towards 2036 - The DOP has a Discussion Paper on exhibition for comment (closing date 30 Apr 10) which is intended to be the first 5 year review of the Sydney Metro Strategy 2005 and ask questions about development given that the population and other estimates relied upon in the Metro Strategy 2005 are under- estimated.
We will be lodging a Submission and have prepared a draft Submission and will be circualting it amongst the Working Party members for comment/changes. We also intend to bring the final Submission to the Mayoral meeting on 13 April 10.